Please ask people to translate, don't just close a question

Question

TL;DR : there are people who can translate foreign posts , ask them ; don't just close vote all the things

N.B.: The main goal is to edit questions and provide them with clarity. I am not asking to refrain from closing posts in foreign languages ; I am asking community to give links to those posts to those who can appropriately edit them.

Dear AskUbuntu community ,

Although the de-facto language of the Stack Exchange network is English, please take a moment to reflect on this topic: Ubuntu has users from around the world, and not all of them speak fluent English. It is not fair to a user who due to that limitation , has to have their question closed as unclear what you are asking. At the same time, we do have users who are capable of translating such posts , and in some cases, they can tackle multiple languages.

A few of our community members , myself included, have created a list of multi-lingual users who can assist you in clarifying and translating non-English posts. I realise that close-votes probably won't cease , but at least leave a message in chat to those users with a link to the original question.

In defence of this topic consider the following points:

• Ubuntu has officially-supported Kylin flavour , which is distro tailored for Chinese users. Not all of the Chinese users have fluent English skills.

• Consider the list of Ubuntu partners . Not all of the companies on that list are based in English-speaking countries.

• Some users voiced such opinion : " OP can do some effort and at least try Google Translate " . Google Translate does a fair job, but it is still software and does not fully convert meaning of words. In addition, it frequently does more bad than good to original text's meaning. I myself have been using it for assisting my Chinese friends in translating various documents,and know for a fact that it's insufficient and resulting translation doesn't make sense.

• It is frequent to collaborate between networks. We have users who participate on both Unix and Linux as well as other sites. Consider collaborating with users-moderators of language-related sites of Stack Exchange network.

• There is no official restriction on posts in other languages. Consider the Ask Question page as well as tour - there is no explicit restriction.

• We are officially mentioned in the Ubuntu installer , as well as on ubuntu.com site. It has been mentioned, "Well, just send them to forums in their language". Over my time on AskUbuntu I have not seen this put to practice.

• There are people who are voluntarily willing to translate. Just like there are people who are willing to edit posts that are very poorly formatted and make no sense. There are people who are willing to spend the time to ask questions in comments. Does it not make sense to ask those people who are willing to put in the time to help a person instead of closing it because you ( and you specifically ) didn't understand the post ?

Answer 1

Questions posted in a language other than English on an English language site are unclear by definition and should be closed. However, closing a question as unclear does in no way stop anyone from translating it and voting to reopen. If you feel so strongly about this, and if you know that other users are willing to translate, sure, let them know. But first close the question because in its current state it is unclear.

We expect users to put the minimal amount of effort into their questions. That's one of the main reasons for downvoting and is what makes Stack Exchange so much better than the noise-filled forums that abound everywhere else on the internet. A user who simply posts their question in another language on an English-language site and can't even be bothered to i) attempt to write in English or, if they speak no English at all, ii) pass their question through Google Translate is failing to put any effort at all into the question.

I speak 5 languages and understand a few more. This means I am unfortunate enough to be able to understand many of the non-English questions posted on the site. Sadly, in almost all cases, the different language is the least of the post's problems. As can be expected, if a user can't even be bothered to notice that they're on an English language site, they also can't be bothered to write anything resembling a clear, on topic question.

As far as I can recall, every time I translated a post, I also had to leave a comment requesting basic information from the OP. Frankly, posting non-English questions on an English language site is usually a good indication that the question itself is a poor fit for the site, irrespective of the language it happened to have been posted in.

That said, let's imagine you find a question whose only problem is the language and translate it. Now what? If the OP can't ask in English, chances are they also can't understand the answer. Conversely, if they can understand the answer, then they should have asked in English in the first place.

Ask Ubuntu isn't the one and only stop for Ubuntu related support and information on the internet. It is one of the top spots for English support and information, but there are dozens if not hundreds of helpful sites in other languages. Our target audience is not the world, but the portion of the world that uses Ubuntu and can understand English well enough to ask questions in that language. It would never occur to me to go to an Urdu Ubuntu forum and post a question in English. I would consider that to be inconsiderate (I don't care what language y'all speak, I'll just ignore that and post in mine) and rude.

So, if you feel that translating is somehow better, feel very free to do so. If you know of other people who also want to translate, again feel absolutely free to get together, let each other know and translate.

However, asking the community to refrain from closing patently unclear questions as unclear is not reasonable. Questions that can't be understood are unclear and, on an English site, questions that are not in English are precisely that. The community has every right and, indeed, an obligation to close them as unclear. As I said in the beginning, if they are later edited to make them clear, they can be reopened. I don't see why a lack of clarity based on language should be treated any different than any other reason for a question being unclear.

Answer 2

Although the de-facto language of the Stack Exchange network is English, please take a moment to reflect on this topic: Ubuntu has users from around the world, and not all of them speak fluent English. It is not fair to a user who due to that limitation, has to have their question closed as unclear what you are asking. At the same time, we do have users who are capable of translating such posts, and in some cases, they can tackle multiple languages.

This is not about "fair" or us discriminating - this is an English only site. That's just the rules. Just like we close low quality, we close non-English.

A few of our community members , myself included, have created a list of multi-lingual users who can assist you in clarifying and translating non-English posts. I realise that close-votes probably won't cease , but at least leave a message in chat to those users with a link to the original question.

Sure, but we still vote to close untill it is clear what is being asked. Just like we vote to close even if they will edit it later. It can be reopened of course.

In defence of this topic consider the following points:

• Ubuntu has officially-supported Kylin flavour , which is distro tailored for Chinese users. Not all of the Chinese users have fluent English skills.

And this site does not officially support questions asked in Chinese. We support all official distros, but the questions have to be English.

• Consider the list of Ubuntu partners . Not all of the companies on that list are based in English-speaking countries.

So? We're not Ubuntu. We're Stack Exchange, and this site is an English site.

• Some users voiced such opinion : "OP can do some effort and at least try Google Translate". Google Translate does a fair job, but it is still software and does not fully convert meaning of words. In addition, it frequently does more bad than good to original text's meaning. I myself have been using it for assisting my Chinese friends in translating various documents, and know for a fact that it's insufficient and resulting translation doesn't make sense.

So don't use it, vote to close instead. Wait for a human to translate it better.

• It is frequent to collaborate between networks. We have users who participate on both Unix and Linux as well as other sites. Consider collaborating with users-moderators of language-related sites of Stack Exchange network.

I'm not sure I understand.

• There is no official restriction on posts in other languages. Consider the Ask Question page as well as tour - there is no explicit restriction.

Yes, there is. The help centre says "Correct use of English spelling and grammar to the best of your ability."

• We are officially mentioned in the Ubuntu installer , as well as on ubuntu.com site. It has been mentioned, "Well, just send them to forums in their language". Over my time on Ask Ubuntu, I have not seen this put to practice.

We are officially mentioned in the installer. That does not give people permission to break our rules, not meet our standards or to abuse our site. Just because we are mentioned doesn't mean we will support everyone and everything!

• There are people who are voluntarily willing to translate. Just like there are people who are willing to edit posts that are very poorly formatted and make no sense. There are people who are willing to spend the time to ask questions in comments. Does it not make sense to ask those people who are willing to put in the time to help a person instead of closing it because you ( and you specifically ) didn't understand the post?

Yes. If you understand a closed post, edit it so everyone can. Otherwise, leave it. If you see a closed post you understand, vote to reopen. That's how the system works, and we should not be leaving things open in case they are edited some day.

My pronouns are He / Him

Answer 3

First of all: all communication must be in English. Period. Second, if they don't know enough English to write their question in English, how would you expect them to understand the answer in English? Either way, both answers and questions have to be in English, knowing English is a prerequisite to use the site, if you can't adapt to that maybe this site is not meant for you. There are several venues where you can ask your question or solve your problem.

Answer 4

If a question isn't in English I for one won't be able to answer it regardless of whether it falls into my areas of expertise or not. I will vote to close as unclear. If someone who does understand it translates it to English I will vote to reopen if the content is clear at that point. Just because someone is willing to translate something doesn't mean that their time is best spent doing so.

Answer 5

If it helps, I would say about 40 to 50 questions I have created were from a Spanish Ubuntu user who did not know English at the time. I participate not only in here but several other circles and even offer my services via hangouts to Ubuntu users from around the world that have a problem posting in English (we are talking about 400 to 600 emails/messages per year here. Basically 2 to 3 a day). Add to this a group of Spanish Ubuntu users (around 100) that I help with questions about the system.

So I would be more than happy and honored to join that list of translation members for Spanish users and bring Ubuntu to more users.

Answer 6

We want to help people, but we are not a help desk. Offering a translation "service" seems nice, but is in contradiction with the basic principle that both the Q & A, as well as the discussion on them should be available to all readers, including OP.

If it is already an issue now for many people to clearly spell out a problem, how would you imagine the mess if there is a translator in the middle, with his or her own interpretation of the question? Who is going to make sure possible answers are translated back to OP's language? Are you going to adopt the question?

Furthermore, people, not speaking English, cannot search the site for existing questions/answers. Most of the non- EN questions already are dupes. Imagine what happens if we encourage that.

Come on, like you, I'd like everyone to be able to participate, but a translation service is not our business, translating back and forth is not our quality. Let's do what we are good at; asking and answering quality questions. In English.