1

This question is because of some close votes due to EOL are wrong - I expect it is quite a lot.

This is a review of a question (admittedly too broad / unclear)- it was flagged as being EOL for being 10.04 - despite the fact that 10.04 server remain supported through April 2015. (I removed it because it was detracting from the actual question)

My suggestion is some sort of notification, when you click the EOL radio button, and before you click the Close button

Could the tool tip display something like this:

enter image description here

EOL (Off topic): 10.04 Desktop, 11.04 and 11.10, 12.10, 13.04 and 13.10.
Not EOL (On topic): 10.04 Server, 12.04, 14.04.

Or maybe, rather than a tooltip, just a message.

enter image description here

Or even change it from having this:

This question is about an end of life Ubuntu release...

This question is about an end of life Ubuntu release: pre 10.X, 10.04-desktop, 11.04, 11.10, 12.10, 13.04, 13.10. The following are still supported: 10.04-server 12.04 or 14.04...

That would be better than it nagging. It could maybe only appear depending on keywords?

  • Nonetheless, the question deserves closure due being unclear, not for being EOL. – Braiam Aug 25 '14 at 22:01
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    @Braiam That doesn't change Tim's point in any way whatsoever. You're missing the forest for the trees. – Seth Aug 25 '14 at 22:35
  • @Seth and everyone decided that since they cannot rub-stamp the close vote the question should be leave open. They are missing the forest for the trees. – Braiam Aug 25 '14 at 22:36
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    @Braiam Over time, I've seen quite a few questions flagged or close-voted as EoL that aren't. Here's another recent one. I've even seen people try to close 12.04 questions as EoL! Irrespective of whether or not the particular question Tim used as the example should be closed for some reason besides being EoL, this is a real issue and this feature request shouldn't be dismissed just because the example looks like it may suffer from an entirely unrelated problem. – Eliah Kagan Aug 25 '14 at 23:22
  • @EliahKagan he's approaching the issue using the wrong scope. If people are voting EOL questions because it has a tag, then perhaps we should eradicate the behavior by removing the tag, thus people will vote EOL for having read the questions, not just the tag. See the second point here which is relevant. – Braiam Aug 25 '14 at 23:27
  • @Braiam Uhm.. People aren't just voting based on tags. Where did you get that idea? You're going off on a tagging tangent again. This has nothing to do with tags. – Seth Aug 25 '14 at 23:30
  • @Seth how you believe the system will show the suggested tooltip, please humor me. – Braiam Aug 25 '14 at 23:33
  • BTW, @EliahKagan I'm the first user that shouts if I see a question being incorrectly or lazily closed and take action, but this request isn't feasible in any way or form and wouldn't surely have the desired behavior. People should instead learn how to use their close votes (and read the description), review slots, etc. instead of adding another nagging message to the system. This just not scale. – Braiam Aug 25 '14 at 23:34
  • The idea is the people see the version 10.04, either in tags or main body or title, and then just close it, without bothering to read it any more. When you click the radio button, before clicking close, it would show it - see my edit for how it could work instead of a tooltip. – Tim Aug 26 '14 at 8:03
  • If question is not tagged with vesrion (i.e. 10.04) then How future-tool you are requesting can identify the version of Ubuntu? (How far it is possible ti identify from body of Q by future-tool?) – Pandya Aug 26 '14 at 14:10
  • It wouldn't necessarily do that - it could detect key words. – Tim Aug 26 '14 at 14:16
  • "The idea is the people see the version 10.04, either in tags or main body or title, and then just close it, without bothering to read it any more." why don't you suggest then something to remove that behavior instead of adding another nagging message? – Braiam Aug 27 '14 at 11:41
4

The problem with such an exhaustive tooltip is your work is never done:

  • New releases need to be added. I know it's not a daily task but that also means this tooltip is going to grow. It won't be long before it's longer than the actual close text.

  • We need to work out what's actually on-topic. Even after we get onto a standard Ubuntu LTS, some spins have shorter LTS periods but how does that affect the base support level? Who knows?!

  • Codifying things so strictly seems to scare all common sense away and you're left with people doing stupid things in the name of "the law"... And that can involve a thousand meta battles to fully unwind.

Ultimately you shouldn't be voting to close as something unless you're sure that applies. A hundred tooltips aren't going to every person getting that wrong. That's why it usually takes more than one person to get something closed.

There's a link right in the text that should explain what is and isn't on-topic. It's very Ubuntu-centric so might not be the best link. If there's a better option we should change the close message to point to that link.

  • Could we just have a page that says what is EOL / not EOL that is a clear as day, and we host? – Tim Aug 26 '14 at 13:43
  • @Seth is that because ubuntu doesn't support it? – Tim Aug 26 '14 at 20:57
0

The question was correctly closed - because LTSP on 10.04 LTS is no longer supported. To clarify exactly what is still "supported" on 10.04 LTS, the Security Team FAQ says: "For Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, the list of 5y supported packages is here."

That list of supported packages is limited to only 613 supported packages. Every other package from 10.04 is now unsupported. ltsp-server and ltsp-client are unsupported packages. This implies that the question was being correctly closed, as the question was regarding unsupported packages. Unsupported packages do not get security updates, and we should not be encouraging people to use them. What if there is a remote exploit in the 10.04 ltsp-server? It will not have been fixed, and will never be fixed in the future, and for that reason users need to be made aware that their software is no longer supported and should not be used.

Even without knowledge of the supported package list, it should have been obvious that the 10.04 ltsp-client is a desktop system - the package directly depends on xorg - and as such it is no longer supported.

  • Okay, but that was just an example - look at what the request was - not obvious in any way to me - without knowledge, how do I know it uses xorg? It's not like it has gtk in the name. – Tim Aug 26 '14 at 12:10
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    Your suggestion implies that questions about 10.04 server are on-topic because it is not EOL. But the vast majority of 10.04 packages are EOL. Questions about 10.04 server are not "on-topic" just because of "10.04 server". And apart from that, there are very few 10.04 questions that are purely about software on the "still supported" list (the only significant packages that are likely to still be deployed in supported environments are apache, postgresql, samba). From 10.04 questions supported server questions are very rare. – bain Aug 26 '14 at 12:27
  • quite possibly, but that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist - look at some of seth's comments. – Tim Aug 26 '14 at 12:28

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