-3

I have read this answer it suggests that Bash questions are on-topic since it helps in administration.

Keeping this in mind, C programming questions too should be on-topic. we can use C to write services and routine and therefore helps in administration. To me it sounds like there is no specific difference between them if one talks about Ubuntu.

what I mean is if bash helps in administration so is C

So why C programming questions are not on-topic?


One of the person in chat said me: "bash is a shell and native to Linux. C is a coding language. coding languages have their own stack site :=) shells do not". My comment on this: Since, bash is native to Linux and shell so is C language. "coding languages have their own stack site :=) shells do not" ? If you talk reversely, since we have Unix & Linux, there is no need of AskUbuntu :-)


Update: Please give answers with citation and not that just appeal you and bunch of people who voted your answers up

  • 2
    There is no need for U&L, since we have Super User. That argument is pointless – muru Nov 14 '15 at 14:10
  • @muru that is what I am saying -_- – Edward Torvalds Nov 14 '15 at 16:51
  • so you conveniently leave 1/2 of it out? AU is an official support medium for Ubuntu and U&L is not. That alone makes your point invald. Please check the usage graph: if AU was part of U&L 99% of U&L would be about Ubuntu: gigaom.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/1/2015/01/… The same goes for U&L and SU @muru. – Rinzwind Nov 14 '15 at 21:35
  • and before you start quoting chat messages make damn sure I am serious... and make sure you tell the WHOLE story. – Rinzwind Nov 14 '15 at 21:37
  • @Rinzwind you should quote next time >:-) serious or not serious – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 8:27
  • There was a question below it indicating I was showing something that was a -possible- argument. – Rinzwind Nov 15 '15 at 8:29
5

Before starting to argue about a formal definition of what is on-topic and what is not: there's no formal definition of what is on-topic and what is not: the definition is arbitrary. X is on-topic and Y is not.

C is off-topic because it has nothing to do with administering Ubuntu, if not in an absurd remote way such as "I'm using C to make a program to administer X; since X is on-topic and I use C to make X, C is on-topic.".

While Aristotle would love that logic, it doesn't make sense at all to allow C in Ask Ubuntu, so we just dismiss that logic.

  • example of Aristotle is funny and accurate :-) – Edward Torvalds Nov 14 '15 at 12:54
  • Aww... Chairs are off-topic... :( :P – user364819 Nov 14 '15 at 14:07
  • there's no formal definition of what is on-topic and what is not: the definition is arbitrary. X is on-topic and Y is not. can you give link to page on this site that states clearly what is on topic or off-topic? – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 7:58
  • @edwardtorvalds Sure, on-topic and off-topic. For everything not covered in those pages, there's Meta. However let me clarify my point: the definition is arbitrary not because Stack Exchange or whoever single entity decides so, we (users like me and you) arbitrarily decide what is on-topic (by posting on Meta). I highly doubt that because it's long time (since this site borned) that C questions are off-topic, but If your post will ever happen to score very high, this arbitrary choice will surely be reversed. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 8:09
  • @edwardtorvalds Also in this specific case, the Help Center pages don't cover the topic. In this case you fall back to highly scored Meta posts: see here (Overlapping Scopes -> Closure Considerations) – kos Nov 15 '15 at 8:14
  • You gave a big answer without citation and yet you got 5 voteups! this is how things work on this website? you give answers to make people happy even if it comes without proper citation/proof? – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 8:55
  • 1
    @edwardtorvalds See my comment on your answer. Meta is for expressing opinions, and votes on Meta are meant to express agreement / disagreement; there's no need to mention sources or anything, one can also write an answer such as "I don't want that because I don't like it" and upvotes on that would be fair, because the point is extabilishing how the community wants to coordinate relatively to certain topics. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:07
  • @kos Meta is for expressing opinions, and votes on Meta are meant to express agreement / disagreement agreed. there's no need to mention sources or anything, one can also write an answer such as "I don't want that because I don't like it" and upvotes on that would be fair, if we dont mention sources/references this happens. there is an old saying give citation it is for a reason – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:11
  • @edwardtorvalds That's about the main site, not about Meta. Also sources on the main site are not needed either, although very welcome. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:27
  • @kos but if you define rules of askubuntu, how can I believe you? should I believe you just because you are saying? or should I ask citation on rules? – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:31
  • @edwardtorvalds I did give you a link to an answer tackling the same topic here: meta.askubuntu.com/questions/14682/…. Here's another one: meta.askubuntu.com/questions/10317/…. That being said, there's no need for me to backup my assertions, because your question is: "Why is X?", and I just gave my opinion on why being X is is not a wrong thing. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:50
  • @kos that was after posting the answer and after I asked for citation before that your answer was just a like unsupported myth with no citation. I mean until then you post your views and no rules – Edward Torvalds Nov 16 '15 at 5:33
  • 2
    @edwardtorvalds Because it's not needed, as this is just my opinion, and I never meant to speak in behalf of the whole community or something; otherwise I'd have added sources to backup my assertions. Nonetheless I gave you a link where the community has expressed the same opinion as soon as you asked for one, I don't understand where's the problem. I never meant to give an "official" answer or something, I'm not entitled to do that: I just gave you my point of view. – kos Nov 16 '15 at 9:17
2

Saying Ubuntu is written in C, so it should be on topic - is like saying Python is written in C, so on a python specific stackechange site, C would be on topic. It's a logical fallacy.

As to the parallel, to UL vs AU. This discussion has been had many times. I'm sure if you look around the site, you'll find the logic train there.

  • I have edited. what I mean is if bash helps in administration so is C – Edward Torvalds Nov 14 '15 at 12:24
  • The site only targets helping devs during things like app showdowns or whatever. Tom Everyday User shouldn't have to parse programming questions, but he might want a shell script to control his keyboard backlight brightness. The line has to be drawn somewhere. This is where it is drawn. – RobotHumans Nov 14 '15 at 12:26
-2

So it looks like there is no clear distinction made anywhere on this website(Help Centre) what topics to ask or not.

You either have to read a lot of meta posts, need to ask moderators here or post the question to see whether it allowed or not.

Help centre does not clears this out.


Other basic problem is if you ask someone on this topic you wouldn't get answer/comment without sarcasm (you will find them in comments and answer to my question).

Update: None of them gave a reference or a proper logic, everyone is just arguing to make their point. Even if you make a good point you will get a vote down just because that question/answer didnt made them happy with their petty logic... It looks like most of the vote down/up on this website are personal

Update: If you will look at answers of kos and hbdgaf, you wouldn't find any citation. And yet they got voteups, this is how things work on this website? people can answer whatever comes to their mind? So did I but with logic but what happened? I got vote down! why? because my statement even if they have logic dont make people happy!

  • If you're referring to my answer, the chair thing wasn't meant to be sarcastic at all, it was meant to put the spotlight on a blatant flaw of the reasoning I was arguing against in order to prove my point. I've taken that bit down, but trust me when I tell you that I didn't mean to be harsh or sarcastic at all with that (like I'm sure hbdgaf didn't mean it either). – kos Nov 15 '15 at 8:45
  • @kos not just you! everyone. did you notice at least one person who tried to explain giving reference or a proper logic – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 8:50
  • 1
    The proper logic has been illustrated (indirectly) multiple times by arguing against the wrong logic: my answer, hbdgaf's answer, muru's comment, Rinzwind's comment. The problem is that much like me when I started attending this site you're looking for a strict logic to apply in oder to deem things on-topic or not: there's no such strict logic, you can make a point about anything. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:03
  • The rule to follow is just common sense: this site is born to help Ubuntu users with general Ubuntu usage; Ubuntu users are not meant to be able to answer C questions, although many probably could; nonetheless there's a site on purpose for that already (Stack Overflow). On your last edit: votes on Meta don't indicate technical correctness, they indicate agreement / disagreement. So yes, votes on Meta are meant to be personal. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:03
  • @kos again, no citation! The rule to follow is just common sense different people have different sense of thinking – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:05
  • @kos Ubuntu users are not meant to be able to answer C questions, although many probably could; nonetheless there's a site on purpose for that already (Stack Overflow). I made it clear earlier! taking your statement in mind I can ask why askubuntu if we have unix&linux – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:08
  • 1
    "different people have different sense of thinking", indeed, that's why we even vote on questions / answers on Meta. Again, votes on my answer don't mean that my answer is "technically correct" or anything. People just agree with that opinion, or anyway just agree with the overall point, i.e. we don't want C questions to be on-topic. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:12
  • @kos I thought different people have different sense of thinking was referring to on-topic/off-topic questions on askubuntu and not meta – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:14
  • 1
    On-topic / off-topic on the main site is deemed based on the Help Center's and Meta's rules; since "different people have different sense of thinking", people vote on Meta questions / answers to define such rules. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:25
  • @kos people vote on Meta questions / answers to define such rules that is what I am asking and that is what citation means. Before I asked was there any question/answer that made it clear that questions on C are off-topic and yet you are giving your views like you know the rules already – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:30
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:31
  • @kos lets clear on this website. my question is how can you prove a point on rules without giving citation? – Edward Torvalds Nov 15 '15 at 9:33
  • 1
    Please come in chat, because comments are not meant to be used for extended discussions; that's not the main room, is a room made on purpose for this answer. People can join and follow up there if they want. – kos Nov 15 '15 at 9:40

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .