5

Since is the tool to build snap packages, the two tags and should be the same thing, if possible.

Having both tags in addition to and gives us who want to help answer all snapd/snapcraft questions more places to watch.

Please let me know what you think.

Update: as some questions arose during the discussion so far, I thought I'd add them to the question as well to make it clearer.

snapd powers Ubuntu Core systems, but is also available on Ubuntu Desktop systems by default since 16.04 LTS. It allows the user to install self-contained, confined applications from the store. Compared with traditional .deb packages, they

  • are more secure, as they make use of technologies like apparmor and seccomp
  • allow app developers to upload them to the store directly where they are automatically reviewed and published instantly
  • give app developers the opportunity to bundle dependencies and thus take care of the entire stack
  • can be made available in multiple release channel in the store, so you could track edge for a given snap, and use the default (stable for another)

The first release where Ubuntu Core with snaps was introduced was 15.04. Over time, snapd will be used on the phone and other places too.

snapcraft is the tool with which you can build snaps. This is entirely separate from the .deb packaging practices. The underlying tools are different and the place where they are published too. Both types of packages can be installed from the new Software Center, but the technologies are very different.

The reality on askubuntu.com today is that is used for traditional packaging and (and ) are just used for creating snaps.

It would help the snapd/snapcraft developers (they are mostly watching the queues of questions right now) a lot, if and were merged.

  • 3
    Agreed. It is unessecary for them to be different. – fosslinux Jun 17 '16 at 1:15
  • 1
    It seems to me that they are different things. snapcraft is a tool to build snaps and snap-package is the actual package. Similar to "debuild" and "debian-package". – Seth Jun 19 '16 at 15:40
  • In my mind it'd make more sense to use the tag ubuntu-core for software which doesn't work on Ubuntu Core. – dholbach Jun 19 '16 at 18:54
  • The way the tags are used today, snapcraft and snap-package are almost synonymous. – dholbach Jun 19 '16 at 18:54
  • snapcraft is using snapcraft to build snaps, and snap-package would be using/installing a snap-package from a user perspective - they likely wouldn't even think to use "snapcraft" in that context. – Mateo Jun 27 '16 at 15:59
7

These tags are getting too confusing and pedantic, we should:

  • Rename to , easy to remember and covers everything from the snaps themselves to snapcraft, this allows the core team to subscribe to just one tag so they can answer questions.
  • Alias to .
  • Leave aliased to , which is a pure snappy system.
  • That's the best compromise. I agree. Thanks! – dholbach Jul 7 '16 at 13:02
  • This has been completed – Marco Ceppi Jul 8 '16 at 12:37
2

IMO: , since alone could be used for questions unrelated to actually building snaps. So if the tags are merged, questions currently using should be examined to see if they fit as well.

On a side note, the wiki should now say "Debian or snap packages".

  • 1
    snapcraft is triple-bonded to snap-package, which plays horseshoes with packaging? Could you please explain in English for us non-mathematical types? – Nick Weinberg Jun 18 '16 at 12:12
  • 2
    Agreed, I see no benefit in splitting this up. There would probably questions left about hacking on snapcraft itself, I suppose. Similarly, extending and improving traditional packaging tools, would still count as packaging activities in my mind. – dholbach Jun 18 '16 at 12:20
  • 1
    @NickWeinberg ∩ means "Intersection" in set theory. snapcraft is the intersection of snap-package and packaging , i.e, snapcrsft contains common elements from both snap-package and packaging (But it does not mean all questions are common). – Severus Tux Jun 24 '16 at 1:17
  • I don't think that this describes reality in Ubuntu. packaging is used for .deb packaging and snapping software is quite different. That's also what I've noticed on askubuntu.com. – dholbach Jun 27 '16 at 19:56
  • @dholbach How long has snap been around? It's my guess that packaging has been around a long time, and its wiki says deb because we don't deal with anything else here. I don't know about you, but it says on snapcraft.io/create: "Snapcraft is a snappy packaging tool." Also on developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/build-apps: "Snapcraft is a build and packaging tool which helps you package your software as a snap." – muru Jun 27 '16 at 19:58
  • Why is this question even relevant? snapcraft has been around for about a year and is here to stay. I have discussed the question of aliasing the two tags with the majority of people who work on snapd and snapcraft - they're in favour of merging the two tags as they're the same thing in reality and we'd prefer not having to review two queues of questions. – dholbach Jul 6 '16 at 14:44
  • @dholbach why are you asking me? You're the OP. – muru Jul 6 '16 at 17:01
  • The OP? I'm not sure I understand. – dholbach Jul 6 '16 at 23:26
  • @dholbach you're the person who posted this question. If you think there's no point to the question, delete it and move on instead of commenting repeatedly on my answer. – muru Jul 7 '16 at 3:02
  • Sorry about that. I just didn't expect the question of how old snapcraft/snappy was. I'll try to clarify my question again. – dholbach Jul 7 '16 at 7:35

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