Timeline for Don't mix version specific tags with stuff that isn't version specific!
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
41 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jun 12, 2020 at 14:35 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
|
|
| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:25 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
replaced http://askubuntu.com/ with https://askubuntu.com/
|
|
| Apr 11, 2014 at 15:41 | comment | added | Braiam | @terdon I'm just citing sources, I'm not saying he's always right, in fact he can be particularly very wrong but that doesn't mean that we can just brush away anything that doesn't fit with our point of view. BTW, Shog also have another point of view on the matter. I will agree with any point of view to keep any tag if we could use them correctly. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 15:26 | comment | added | terdon | @Braiam I know. And I disagree with precisely the whole concept of a "war". I'm not saying they are being used correctly, I'm saying that the way you suggest is also not correct. Also, the "cult of Jeff" that we have on SE is a bit ridiculous. Yes the man started it and yes he tends to be right about how things should be done. However, "because Jeff said so" is not a good argument and never has been. Even less so now that he has stepped down from SE. So, 1) I am not convinced that you are expressing Jeff's opinion and 2) Even if you are, there is nothing that says that Jeff is always right. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:57 | comment | added | Braiam | @terdon "Only version tag posts that provide at least some evidence they are in fact tied to a specific version of Ubuntu." That's what Jeff said. Take a look around and tell me, are we following Jeff guidance? I will say again, my war isn't with the tags, but the way they are used. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:51 | comment | added | terdon |
@Braiam first of all, the Ubuntu version indicates the apt version. It is not necessarily so but often, if you know which Ubuntu version, you can assume the corresponding apt version unless the user has modified it. In any case, my position is "more tags is better" and I see no reason for this crusade against version tags. As for an example, Gilles has given one in his answer and in this question.
|
|
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:48 | comment | added | Braiam | @terdon ok, show me a case where version of Ubuntu (not apt's) will be relevant to the question. As I said to Gilles, I've yet to see one. I'm ok, as long as you show me an example, experience speak opposite. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:37 | comment | added | terdon | @Braiam and Oli, of course he does! The vast majority of Braiam's (extensive) activity on the site only makes the site better for everyone! Especially his work on tags. It's just certain extreme positions of his on the subject that I object to and this is one of those. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:35 | comment | added | terdon | @Braiam 1) Gilles is making a different point. Your post is describing an absolute and, frankly, absurd position: "never use version tags and apt". Gilles is saying that there are cases where both should be used. Your downvotes are mostly for that never. Of course version tags are abused on AU, everyone agrees with that, it's just your extreme position that we disagree with. 2) That said, I don't completely agree with Gilles either. That's allowed you know. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:31 | comment | added | Braiam | @Oli thanks, for that. I'm going to continue with what at least everybody agrees is a bad tag. But don't misunderstand me, I'm ok with any tag as long as is properly taken care off. Right now, I would say: lets remove them all and start again, which is reasonable and easier to fix. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:29 | comment | added | Braiam | @terdon have you read Gilles answer? It start "you raise a good point that version tags are massively overused on AU" and then goes by what I said "use a version tag if and only if the question is only applicable to that specific Ubuntu version". And at least 3 others agree with him yet, disagree with me. I don't see how can you agree with someone idea and disagree with someone else with the same idea. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:27 | comment | added | Oli Mod | Just to interject in his defence, Braiam does also make very valid edits and tag rearrangements. There are genuinely poor tags out there being used, I just don't think a version tag that indicates "I'm doing all this on 14.04" is in the same league as something like "crash" or something meta like "tutorial". Even if they're occasionally used poorly, version tags are providing us more benefit than harm. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:21 | comment | added | terdon | @Braiam it is very relevant. My point is that as far as I, and apparently the rest of the community, are concerned, your way of using tags is wrong. Time has never proven you right in anyone's eyes but your own. What you describe is "tag misuse and abuse", not a way of avoiding it. Nevertheless, you insist and refuse to consider the possibility that it might be you who is mistaken and not everybody else. I know you mean well and that you want to make the site more efficient, I know that's your goal. I just think you are achieving the exact opposite with the way you tag. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:15 | comment | added | Braiam | @terdon yeah, but that's isn't relevant for the topic at hand, isn't it? The relevant part here is how to use the system in the most efficient way possible. Tagging is an important tool, and it's misuse and abuse hurts the capacity of the system of working at high levels of efficiency. That's my only goal. I have been in the unpopular side several times and times always proves me right. That I have to wait 1-2 years to see it, it doesn't matter, I have patience to wait, just that I hope that these issues get addressed and my voice reach the people willing to listen them. | |
| Apr 11, 2014 at 14:10 | comment | added | terdon | @Braiam "that I'm in the unpopular side doesn't mean I'm wrong.": actually, it does. This is a democracy and the definition of "correct" here is "the opinion of the community". If the community is "wrong", that's too bad. You may think that your position is "correct" but as you can see, the community disagrees and therefore you are wrong by definition. Even if there were some objective criterion by which you would be considered "right" (and there isn't as far as I'm concerned) that is completely irrelevant. Being on the unpopular side of a community decision means you're wrong. Period. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 12:45 | comment | added | Oli Mod |
@Gilles You replaced the version somebody on 14.04 will be on by default with one of your own. That's the point of version tags - to get some sort of idea of the system. We can go round and round and round on this but that's not how things work here... And it almost sounds like you're asking me to create a bash-completion-2.1-4 tag.
|
|
| Apr 10, 2014 at 12:22 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Oli I didn't go out of my way to port the issue around: I merely compiled a program on a supported Ubuntu release. I ran into exactly the same problem, and no relevant part of the context was different (which is why our questions were duplicate, and admitted identical answers). Since the Ubuntu version was not a relevant part of the context, it should not be used as a tag. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 12:06 | comment | added | Oli Mod | @Gilles If you deliberately go out of your way to port issues around, sure, you're running in to a similar problem but in a very different context. Yours isn't version specific. Mine is. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 11:53 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Oli If the issue was version-specific, it would not apply to another version. This apt completion issue is not specific to an Ubuntu version — that's the point. The apt completion issue applies to any version up to and including 14.04, whenever a recent enough version of a particular piece of software is installed. Issues with manually-compiled software are on-topic here as long as you're running that software on an official Ubuntu release. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 11:51 | history | edited | OliMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
deleted 8 characters in body
|
| Apr 10, 2014 at 11:45 | comment | added | Oli Mod | @Gilles You can port a version specific issue to another release?! Wow. Couldn't you do that with just about any issue? I've added a flow diagram that features that point. Try not to get too silly about this. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 11:44 | history | edited | OliMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 1752 characters in body
|
| Apr 10, 2014 at 1:25 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Braiam, Oli Here you go. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 1:07 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Braiam Even going with Marco's policy (which is stupidly broad), this wouldn't apply to my example — upgrade woes that are documented in the release notes. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 1:02 | comment | added | Braiam | @Gilles I'm talking in the context of this previous meta Q. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:43 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Braiam My example is an example of a question that should stay. Don't take “bug reports are off-topic too far”: reporting bugs is off-topic, but working around bugs isn't. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:35 | comment | added | Braiam | @Gilles I will give you that, but remember that those questions (about bugs) don't stick long enough to make a trend. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:20 | comment | added | Braiam | @Oli that I'm in the unpopular side doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm not here to be popular, but to share knowledge in the most efficient manner possible. I'm more worried about the fact that your behavior is opening the doors to mistagging (which is fact is doing). It hurts me and the site the fact that I can't properly find a question because tags totally irrelevant to the questions are being used, while the ones that are critically relevant are not. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:19 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' |
@Braiam I have better things to do than looking them up, but sometimes there are bugs in APT that require special handling during a version upgrade, to ensure that apt is upgraded to a non-buggy version before running an apt-get dist-upgrade that would otherwise fail. A question about such cases would naturally be tagged apt 42.x.
|
|
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:17 | history | edited | OliMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 459 characters in body
|
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:14 | comment | added | Braiam | @Gilles care to elaborate? I haven't seen any question that I've not able to answer accurately, without even knowing the version of OS OP is using. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:10 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | @Oli True. I'm not sure if this is a language problem, but the statement “any and every question about apt is applicable to any version of Ubuntu” is absurd. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:05 | comment | added | Oli Mod |
@Gilles I'm not contesting that. Braiam (per the question, not the comments) is suggesting you can't use a broader tag like apt with a tag like 14.04. That's nuts.
|
|
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:00 | comment | added | Oli Mod | @Braiam This answer wasn't really even about version tagging (it's about the dictate you're trying to set about using broad tags) but since you bring it up, I'm exasperated that you think a problem specific to 14.04's version of Apt/bash-completions doesn't deserve a version tag. Exasperated. Given the number of times you've been on the unpopular side of this debate, I'm increasingly worried you think you're doing something desirable when you automatically strip them off every question you see. I consider that outright vandalism. | |
| Apr 10, 2014 at 0:00 | comment | added | Gilles 'SO- stop being evil' | A tag tells what the question is about. If a question is tagged 14.04, it means that the question is about Ubuntu 14.04. If the question is equally applicable to other versions, then the fact that the asker may be running Ubuntu 14.04 is incidental and the tag should not be used. | |
| Apr 9, 2014 at 23:49 | comment | added | Braiam | BTW, you should read meta.sharepoint.stackexchange.com/q/153 | |
| Apr 9, 2014 at 23:46 | comment | added | Braiam | the community (following your example) starts to believe that every question, no matter what, has to have a version tag. That was the condition Jeff put in place to have those tags. Are we following his advice? | |
| Apr 9, 2014 at 23:46 | comment | added | Braiam | You are in love with version specific tags, I've got that since long time ago, but haven't come up with a sane usage of them. People says that "only tag stuff with those tags that are specific with that version of Ubuntu", yet 25% of all our questions have at least one of those tags. Care to explain how a tag that is supposed to be for stuff that it's only for a specific version of Ubuntu, which are undoubtedly the fair minority, have such numbers? I have the answer: | |
| Apr 9, 2014 at 23:43 | comment | added | Braiam | You are adding the tag just because. That's why am downvoting you. I downvoted your answer because you should have proposed a patch instead of asking a question which everybody have to dirt their hands with instead of giving all of us a complete tool out the box. I will continue to downvote you, because your tagging behavior is completely useless, and unhelpful all way around. You think that narrowing the scope will have better opportunities of answering a question? Use effective tagging. | |
| Apr 9, 2014 at 23:34 | history | edited | OliMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 392 characters in body
|
| Apr 9, 2014 at 22:18 | history | answered | OliMod | CC BY-SA 3.0 |