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As the thread title suggests, I think we need to stop considering people's attitude when answering questions and helping people. If the intent is good at the end of the day, it honestly does not matter at all if that person says something another person doesn't like. That's what used to be called tough love. Nowadays its called a ban hammer. Lets fix this people please grow up, you can handle being called a few names but you can't handle living with a broken PC.

In short, we need to change the rules to reflect a mature userbase, who ought to be able to handle criticism, otherwise they ought not to be allowed to use the site. It's not a children's playground, it's a problem solving forum intended for grown-ups.

  • 13
    Can you give an example where you have to be rude in order to answer a question? I completely disagree with this, it will drive people away from this site, not everyone is a grown up (this site is 13+, not 18+). And even for grownups, lots of people are sensitive. You can't go and start calling people idiots for not knowing how to do something that for you is trivial for example. – Dan Jul 26 '18 at 5:30
  • It's not a matter of --having-- to be rude, it's a matter of naturally getting irritated every once in a while when someone can't understand something that, as you said, for someone else may be complicated but for me is totally trivial. And I don't think the site should be 13+ either, or any site where users must agree to a terms of service, as underage children cannot consent to legally binding contracts such as a TOS... I think there are a lot of businesses that overlook this false premise that kids can agree to a legally binding contract, for the sake of expediency and convenience. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 6:11
  • what fundamentally perturbs me about this idea of having to be "polite", is that it's totally subjective, and that bar of "politeness" is placed ever increasingly higher due to giving in more and more to the "sensitive" folks and it's basically just legislating against others to make them be the way you want them to be instead of allowing them to be genuine. Which is really just fascism 101, or the "one will of the people, lead by a dictator" as Mussolini called it, which would be the stack exchange owners/moderators in this case. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 6:20
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    You can be brusque without being rude, and you don't have to emulate a customer service representative. If a question is stupid to you, ignore it. As for your "grow up" comment, I really think you could benefit from reading some of the stories on the TalesFromRetail sub-reddit: grown adults acting like 3-year-olds. – TheWanderer Jul 26 '18 at 6:20
  • @thewanderer it is amazing how fast you contradicted yourself. You say, it's not necessary to act like a customer service representative, and then you tell me to learn from the "TalesFromRetail sub-reddit", or in other words, learn to act like a customer service representative! Lol – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 6:22
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    @Emandudeguy that's just ridiculous. "Be Nice" just means don't directly call people stupid or curse them out. If you're up to it, you can even be friendly. And no, I didn't direct you to read TFR to tell you to act like a CSR; I told you to read it to see "grown adults acting like 3-year-olds," like my comment explictly stated. – TheWanderer Jul 26 '18 at 6:23
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    The whole point of "Be Nice" policy is to have an environment that focuses on tech aspect instead of a post and comments devolving into blatant argument. Not that there's any users which couldn't be called a name or two, such as when question asks about removing critical OS component or running chmod where not proper, but then again that's not the focal point of this site at all. Besides all people make mistakes, everyone is a noob at something, so no point in dwelling on that. – Sergiy Kolodyazhnyy Jul 26 '18 at 7:40
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    You keep talking about the sensitive people that are taking over but the only one being overly sensitive and lashing out at people for disagreement, is you. You come of as extremely sensitive to being disagreed with, falling back on the I am right, it is all you who don't understand/are stupid arguments, this be nice policy is obviously getting to you. – Mark Kirby Jul 26 '18 at 15:43
  • its not being overly sensitive to say, neigh demand for my rights. On the contrary, not doing so is cowardly and it's much easier to excuse misdeeds done against you than do something about them. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 19:09
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I'm afraid this is something that simply isn't up for discussion. Yes, we want to build a resource of useful knowledge and technical help. However, just as importantly, we want t build a civil and friendly resource. If you can't ask or answer politely, then don't ask or answer at all.

If you find this too restrictive, this might not be the right place for you.

  • No place on earth is right for me, then, based on such populist and demagogue-esque logic (same logic used on virtually every internet forum on earth), and therefore you're basically not-so-subtly hoping for me to be holocausted for "acting like a jew.". And therefore the society is at fault, not me, because I'm great. The whole of the rest of society must therefore be at fault. There's nothing you can do to convince me otherwise. You are the one with the problem, unable to handle any criticism without shattering like a disco ball, not me. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 8:14
  • And again if that's the case that I "need to find another home", a home which is a fantasy you have devised that does not exist, then down with askubuntu and praise be to the almighty. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 8:18
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    Um. No, I have absolutely no desire for you to be murdered. However, @Emandudeguy, if you think that someone asking you to be civil is comparable to the holocaust, then you should absolutely find some other place. – terdon Jul 26 '18 at 8:36
  • No matter how you want to construe yourself, you're still acting based on entirely anti-semetic principles. Your very denial of that (and your ample amount of thumbs-up) is all the evidence I need (read up on Goebbel's "big lie" principle). – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 8:47
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    In that case, by all means, leave this horrible place and never look back. – terdon Jul 26 '18 at 8:51
  • well, if I did that my computer would never get fixed, now would it? ;) – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 8:52
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    @Emandudeguy if you want help with your computer, you will have to abide by the rules. Which, by the way, include not throwing around baseless accusations of antisemitism, let alone equating a simple request to be civil to the murder of several million people. If you find these rules too restrictive, either live with your broken computer or find another place that's willing to cater to your whims. – terdon Jul 26 '18 at 8:55
  • I'd love for you to find the line in the terms of service that tell us not to "throw around baseless accusations of antisemitism"!! Hahahah lol you're a funny dude. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 8:56
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    @Emandudeguy "No name-calling or personal attacks." See The second draft of our Code of Conduct is available for feedback and review. And this isn't a debate. You will be civil and you will treat other users with respect or you will not be welcome here. – terdon Jul 26 '18 at 8:59
  • This is utter childs play right now, and I'm speaking of your behaviour not mine. Workers of the world unite against the code of conduct and change it, you have nothing to lose but your chains! – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 9:01
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I often get viewed as being curt, abrupt, or a touch to the rude side.

There's no reason to be obnoxious in an answer to a question or in comments though. So, if the answer or comment is just abrupt and concise, I don't read rude there. On the other hand, if you take a look at the FAQ there's a link to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.

It's one of those things you sign up for by participating, and why we have so many nice/generally helpful people.

  • I've not read of one forum site that didn't have the "don't be rude," so make no mistake that I know what the rules are. I'm saying, it's time to rethink our paradigms. "philosophers have thought to interpret the world in many ways, the point is to change it." ~ Karl Marx – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 6:53
  • Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of Linus and think thick skin is good, but this isn't stackoverflow or serverfault. We're not expecting a rocket scientist SME userbase. – RobotHumans Jul 26 '18 at 7:52
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Think of it this way, folks. If you worked at a car shop, with a bunch of sweaty and dirty men, who were only concerned with getting their work done in a timely manner, would you expect them to always be perfectly polite little schoolgirls about everything with their co-workers? No, you'd just expect them to work with their fellow employees to get the job done no matter what it takes and no matter how heated and frustrated they may get. These people who work at these car shops have the common sense to know that their co-workers might get frustrated at not being able to solve a problem, and they aren't just gonna fire an employee, who is a critical asset to their company, because they "didn't like their tone." An employer is not a mommy or daddy, and neither should a forum moderator be.

  • And the only reason that people say that forum moderators should act like mommies and daddies is because they want to boss people around, and misuse their power. That's the real injustice, not implying someone is a moron because you get temporarily frustrated with them. It's not like I'm gonna hunt someone down and murder them for calling me an idiot, and we should hold all users of the site to the same standard of excellence. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 9:22
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    To your point, I have been fired for someone not liking my tone before. – RobotHumans Jul 26 '18 at 9:32
  • Your employers therefore were bad guys, then. This is exactly why communists tell the workers of the world to unite, and why simultaneously every single other person on earth "doesn't like their tone." I feel for you comrade. Workers of the world should be entitled to work, and employers shouldn't be entitled to fire people based on whims and fancies such as that. The point is not to get rid of the bourgeois, but to make them recognize the authority of the dictatorship of the proletariat. (it might sound like I'm trolling or joking, but I really am communistic, and yes, I truly believe that). – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 9:52
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    You should check out /r/politics or something. As stated, it's not open for debate. I just felt obligated to point out a logical fallacy in your argument. – RobotHumans Jul 26 '18 at 9:58
  • also, for the record, as rude as I may seem (by simply implying that people should have the right to be rude... go figure) I have never been fired from any job for being rude, and if anything, have quit jobs before due to employers treating me poorly. I don't mean to rub it in that you were fired, god forbid (folks should have me banned if I did something like that), but let's just understand the context we're in at this moment. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 9:59
  • there is no logical fallacy. Being fired/banned for people not liking your tone is simply an inexcusable injustice no matter where it happens, not something to be condoned silently. Everything is political, make no mistake about it. In my view, r/politics is just as political as any other website on earth, but on sites that don't explicitly say that they are political, then they can be more sneaky about it, and swear a "total disconnect" from politics while having the exact same goals in mind as career politicians. – Emandudeguy Jul 26 '18 at 10:10

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